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> all right, i start this hour by taking you back to the quaint time that was 2015. back when we were still figuring out what the dating term ghosting actually meant. and what a lot of us didn't know how much about that fringe movement that was the alt right. of course, that all changed with donald trump's golden escalator ride at trump tower when he announced his long shot presidential campaign. trump of course started by courting the fringe alt right movement, retweeting their memes, enlisting the help of steve bannon then executive chairman of the far right site britebart to run his campaign. this was concerning for conservative commentator david french. he wrote an op ed in 2015 calling out the movement saying quote, many of them are white nationalists, hate

interracial adoption, and other race mixing practices. french and his wife and ghost writer nancy were quickly bombarded with threats from the alt right troll. as french writes in her new book ghosted, an american story, the most disturbing attack was of their adopted daughter naomi. the vitriol only got worse when david french briefly considered running as a third party candidate in 2016. here he is on msnbc after nixing the idea talking at the the mental and emotional toll these attacks had on his family. >> i have been against trump for some time, and the assaults on my family have been overwhelming just as a writer. that online racist mob is very fond of pointing out you have a multiracial family, so they've gone after my youngest daughter in the worst way imaginable. >> and just a few months

later, unlikely candidate donald trump was elected president of the united states, and the french family's nightmare was far from over. 2018, nancy french received a call from the fbi informing her that their address was found on the computer of sayoc, the trump supporter that infamously mailed pipe bombs to prominent democrats. in just a few short years, the alt right movement graduated from a fringe group to being platformed and fully embraced by trump and his allies. the republican party had had countless opportunities to prevent this normalization in happening, but they did not and consistently failed to do anything. not after charlottesville, not after the rise of the proud boys, not even after january 6th. what about the republicans who dared to stand up to donald trump? the mitt romney's, the liz cheneys. they've been pariahs in the

modern republican party and ghosted by their conservative friends and community. they've become a political island. because in 2024, it's not the alt right anymore. it's just the right. nancy french is joining me now. she's the author of the new memoir ghosted an american story. thanks so much for making time for us. talk to us about your experience being ghosted from the gop. you write in the book about how you and your husband once attended the 2012 cpac convention where you were considered the quote prom king and queen there. how do you go from there to being out liers? >> right, well, you know, watching you talk about all of the things that our family has gone through actually made me sort of choke up because it's very emotional to see it all just unfurled before your high eye -- your eyes.

so my apologies on that. but david won the cpac ronald reagan award in 2012, and everyone stood on their feet and said we're the type of family that epitomizes conservatism, and we've never been welcome there again. it's been harrowing, it's been disturbing. and one of the things that's alarming, of course, are the people trolling us online, on twitter with the fake memes and the auscwitz memes they photo shop our family in. but the most concerning thing is the actual party, the actual leadership. it's not the alt right trolls that are the problem, but it's the fact we've given into them and are indistinguishable. you can't tell the difference. everyone is gaslighting us. >> you make a very important point about the political party, and i'm curious to get your thoughts on where you see yourself fitting politically now? where are you able to find

community in politics these days? because ultimately for the sake of democracy, we need vibrant political parties and can't have just one that runs the shade of conservatism all the way to progressive left. >> right, and i don't really have any good answers for this to be completely honest. i've been so demoralized and sad over what has happened to the party of reagan. i grew up with ronald reagan pictures on my wall. but i also cannot become a democrat because i have beliefs and hold political, my political values don't align with the democratic party either. but i like to sort of think about myself as being allied with the decent, like coalition of decent people. people who are defiantly not taking what these parties are handing down to us as the two options. it might sound naive or pie in the sky, but i'm not going to give in when the gop says this

is my option, i want give in. i think that's one of the most american things i've done in my life. >> i think it's a very important thing and beautiful thing, and certainly what the country needs right now. i wanted to ask you about one of your trump supporting clients in your career as a ghost writer that down played the rise of the alt right as you were being attacked because we always thought the alt right and far right were on the fringes and wouldn't become main stream. but at this point you can't deny the alt right and white nationalists and supremacists have become main stream, certainly within the republican party. >> yes, that's exactly right. and all my clients, like i had wonderful clients. i've been a ghost writer for many years. i've written for gop celebrities, pundits, leaders, as well as reality tv stars. i might be one of the only people who have been to a bachelor wedding. so i've had a lot of fun with my ghost writing career. but i loved all my

conservative clients, but we started to disagreed a logically. and i didn't want to annoy them to death. i mean, really, do we want to mock john mccain's heroic war record? and it wasn't their fault, we just started believing different things, which is really awkward because if you're a ghost writer, you have to sort of be able to understand what your clients want to know and say and the best way to say it. so eventually either i was fired or i quit from all my clients. sometimes it was hard to tell the difference because there were so many emotions involved because i loved my clients. >> how do you explain how they fell under that spell? because there's probably a big chunk of the population, society that thinks people are making a deal with the devil, bargaining. perhaps the 1%ers think trump is good for my republican party or tax bracket if you will. but how do you explain the clients you had falling under the spell of the modern day

republican party? are they just doing it for their own self-interest or were they true believers? >> i think if you put them under a litmus or a lie detector test, they would literally pass it at every stage. like in 2012 when we were having conversations, and then in 2014 and 16. i think they would have passed it on each level because there's such a high level of self-delusion here. i think that they just gradually changed. like the proverbial frog in a pot or whatever. boiling water. i think they just gradually changed and didn't realize it because there were so view people who were calling them out at it. you put the, you know, the people up on the screen who are now as popular as head lice in the republican party. we're some of them. no one listens to us. no one listens to those people. since the momentum, it's like every sunday school lesson that you've had in church. when the momentum starts going, and they pass you the red solo cup, are you going to

take the swig? and the republican party was like yes! it's a party, let's chug this. and there were a few of us like i don't know, this sort of feels like poison. this doesn't feel like what we signed up for. so i'm not sure what the answer to that is, but i could not keep, i didn't feel like god had given me my writing talents to mischaracterize people or push this agenda, so it left me sort of occupationally homeless. >> let me ask you about the future and where you think the republican party goes for trump. he won't be around forever. can they rebuild the party in a post-trump era or is the damage too severely done that you'll get a trump 2.0 whether it's the marjorie taylor greenes or ron desantiss or vivek ramaswamys. is there enough left in the party to steer it away from trumpism, or has he infected the party so much that it's a lost cause? >> i can't imagine that it's not a lost cause because all the values we held dear, if you just wrote them down, the

gop platform that i grew up knowing about, we violated all of that. so what is left? is it the red hat? it is a stylish thing? the fact we all have the same caps? no. we have nothing left. i don't know, i don't have any solutions for that, i just know that i'm not going to be a part of it. >> yeah, it's nothing short of a cult if you look at it on the superficial aspects and what it's become. unanimousty french, thank -- nancy french, thank you so much for your time and wishing you well. >> thank you so much for having me. next up, trump's veepstakes that forces republicans to leave their values at the door. >> i think trump is going to play this like apprentice. he's going to play it out, he's going to make you join truth, he's going to make you follow it, and whoever you think in the lead, somebody is going to come up from behind. (jen) so we partner with verizon.

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accepting the election results of 2024 bottom line? >> at the end of the day, the 47th president of the united states will be president donald trump, and i'm excited to get back to low inflation, low unemployment -- >> wait, wait, senator, yes or no? yes or no? will you accept the election results of 2024 no matter who wins? >> that is my statement. >> that is my statement. all right, that was tim scott's concerning performance in what many view as his dress rehearsal to become donald trump's vice president. there's also south dakota's governor who recently faced swift backlash for confessing, unprompted by the way, to shooting and killing her dog. puppy to be more precise. she spent last weekend at mar-a-lago, but the negative attention may even be too much for donald trump who said she quote had a rough couple of

days. another possible pick is j. d. vance. he recently down played january 6th and the ex-president's role in the insurrection. joining us now, molly is a special correspondent for vanity fair and political analyst. also dean, great to have you with us. you know, the theory is, to be a potential vice presidentable nominee for president trump you have to be good on television, you have to be able to raise a lot of money. probably have to have the willingness to deny the election. how do you think tim scott is faring right now? >> i mean, it's a race to the bottom here. it's who can debase themselves the most. what is bad is that they go on television and do things like they say they won't accept the results of the election, which is bad for democracy and undermines our whole rule of law. and they also say things like this, you know, we saw rick scott outside the courthouse

saying this was a democratic judge. these are the things degrading the guardrails and norms of democratic society. so it's quite bad. but it's also fun to watch them destroy themselves. >> fun to watch them destroy themselves and also probably willing to put their lives on the line given what happened to mike pence. they were literally chanting hang mike pence. i don't know that i'd want a job where i know the eventuality is that i could be hung at the gallows. >> it's remarkable, but what molly said is so true. rick scott, senator from florida, flies to new york to be donald trump's service animal. essentially his emotional support animal sitting in the courtroom. you have tim scott, vance, the puppy killer. i think it should be a physical competition. a steel cage match. whoever wins, beats the others enough, that's the one that will win. i want to see who will really fight for trump like they did

on january 6th. that's who we should pick. >> but they are doing real damage. >> yeah, we're laughing, but they're really damaging the institution. >> yeah, when rick scott was up there saying this is a democrat judge with a democrat wife and a democrat daughter. and it was like none of that is how this happened, right? there was a grand jury. you know, there's a jury trial. and so you do see, and these people who are the base are believing this. this is their news source. >> actually i was going to ask you about another one from florida. daily beast is reporting rubio wants to go from little marco to potential trump vice president. of course, marco rubio humiliated, defeated, insulted by trump throughout the 2016 campaign. but in order to do that, rubio would need to vacate his senate seat. for me i'm thinking again, this guy is willing to self-sabotage his political career, everything he fought for, just to potentially please donald trump. >> look, it's like the

apprentice, and the apprentice was canceled in 2015 due to lack of viewers. and truly, i'm not being morbid, i'm not sure donald trump survives four years as president. he can't stay awake in his trial, and they're talking about him. >> yeah, age is a factor. >> his skin looks like he's molting, and i'm not sure physically, there's a cognitive decline going on. i think whoever he picks needs to be vetted by the corporate media. ayman, if you know anyone in the corporate media, tell them. and i'm not wishing donald trump ill. but he'll be 78 in a few weeks. he doesn't look well. he doesn't have the energy, and something is going on with him cognitively. >> i would say your point is a really good point. what happened to mike pence. look, mike pence refused to endorse trump. they built a gallows. now, it wasn't an operational gallows, so that's what we should note. but they did, and they were chanting hang mike pence. so this is obviously not a good job. >> i was going to say, i think

the fact the secret service took him out of there is enough of a threat that tells you how worried the security was about mike pence's safety. this was serious. >> yeah, but the desperation to still got that job is shocking. >> but j. d. vance was on cnn saying i don't think mike pence's life is at risk. he literally said that about a week and a half ago. these people fighting for trump beat police officers within an inch of their life. some took their life days or weeks later due to the trauma. they would have killed mike pence for donald trump. they committed seditious conspiracy for donald trump. he has his own militia. there's a military wing of maga, which is a small percentage, but it's there. and whoever is his vp has to know if at any time you break the loyalty oath of donald trump, like in the mafia, they'll come for you. >> the politically savvy people, if there are any within his camp, would probably say go with someone like nikki haley. she's still getting a little bit of support within the

republican party. she can fund raise, and it would perhaps give a little insurance for those republicans that are not 100% magalites. donald trump fired out a tweet on truth social saying that ain't happening. >> yeah, and donald trump jr. said i will like do anything to prevent that. i mean, look, nikki haley is still getting 20, 30% of the vote in states where she hasn't been on the ballot in months and months. which i also think is an important data point. there are never trump people going out and voting for someone who is not even in the race. and i don't, i don't know that those people come home to trump. i'm not convinced. so i would say i think it's very unlikely. she hasn't endorsed him. and my take is, everyone kept saying she's going to endorse, and she hasn't, and i think

she and liz cheney are trying to keep it for what happens if he loses. >> so what's the play for donald trump to go with as a vice president pick? >> cue the news banner, he'll pick a white man. >> you think so? >> that's what he's about. this is the man that bragged recently that white people are being discriminated against in america. this is a guy that believes he's the defender of whiteness. there's no doubt about it. maga, at the core, is a white nationalist movement. second he's bragging that he terminated roe v. wade. he said i was honored to terminate roe v. wade. he's happy he took a fundamental right from women. he does not view people of color, nor does he view women, as equals. he views them as inferior. he'll pick a white man because that's what his base wants and what he wants more importantly. you can play this tape back when he makes his choice. it will be a white guy. >> we'll hold on to the tape. >> not convinced it will be a white guy.

i think it could still be sarah sanders. >> interesting. >> i think it's likely to be a white guy, but i think sarah sanders is still in it. >> okay. >> close enough. hold those thoughts. i've got a lot more to discuss. my next guest argues that while it may hurt campus groups to have the right to exclude zionists, he'll explain why. lots of video calls. i see myself more and i definitely see those deeper lines. i'm still kim and i got botox® cosmetic. i wanted to keep the expressions that i would normally have, you know, you're on camera and the only person they can look at is you. i was really happy with the results. i look like me just with fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition.

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it's a bold initiative, to try and bump cure rates all around the world. but we should. it is our commitment. [music playing] the antisemitism awareness act is now up for debate and an eventual vote in the senate after passing the house last week. but this bill and what's at the heart of it, a definition of antisemitism, has faced widespread push back. it would require the federal education department to use the definition from the holocaust remembrance alliance when addressing allegations of discrimination in higher education. but amid mounting backlash, more than 1,000 jewish professors signed onto a letter this week calling on lawmakers not to support the legislation and quote reject

any effort to codify into federal law a definition of antisemitism that conflates it with the state of israel. some are concerned under the law that schools could be accused of discrimination and risk federal funding for merely offering courses critical of zionism or offering protests against israeli government politics. one of the critics of the lead drafter of the text that became the ihra definition. kenneth stearn argued it was never meant to chill free speech on campus. he writes in the boston globe when we use the term antisemitism so expansively, it empties its ability to confront it. kenneth is joining us now. thank you so much for making

time with us. for years you raised concerns about enshrining the ihra definition of antisemitism into law. elaborate for us and the viewers about your concerns about a more expansive definition of antisemitism, and why you're concerned about how it could target free speech on college campuses? >> well, thank you first for having me. and it has been used for targeting free speech on college campuses. it was developed in 2004 and 2005. the text of it mostly to help european data collectors take the temperature of antisemitism across borders and across time. but it was never intended as a hate speech code. and what we started seeing in 2010 when the department of education made clear that jews and muslims as ethnicities were protected under title 6 from a pervasively hostile campus environment, we started seeing lawsuits to say that

certain things that people believed violated the definition, examples about israel, things related to courses that were being taught, speakers coming to campus and so forth should be the basis of the title 6 case. so it was used as a hate speech code. and one of the things that really troubled me is when i started working at the american jewish committee on these issues in the 90s, one of the first things we discovered talking to college presidents and deans and provosts and faculty is the last thing you want to do about bigotry on campus is having a simple rule about what speech is okay and what isn't. you want to make sure that students shouldn't be intimidated, harassed, or bullied, but they should expect to hear things they don't like and that should be responded with teaching and other speech. >> how do you personally feel about how the definition is being used beyond its original intent? and more broadly speaking, the

way that antisemitism is being conflated are antizionism? >> well, my major concern is that we're at a point where we try to get simple solutions to complicated issues. we see it on this issue, we see it on issues around the 2024 election, we see it on immigration, on abortion. so i run a hate study center, and people who hate want to see simple things, want to have clarify, want to believe that justice is on their side and injustice is on their other side. and there's brain science and social psychology that helps support this conclusion. but people that are fighting hate and antisemitism are human beings too. and we tend to want simple solutions that. st what worries me the most. it sort of blinds us to what we should be doing about antisemitism on and off campus when we think there's a handy cheat sheet that says this is okay to say and this isn't. when you look at how antisemitism actually works,

think of the tree of life shooting in pittsburgh. it was motivated with a background of people talking about invaders coming over the southern border and oh because the jewish community hosted a pro immigration group, that was a target. nobody would say the shooting at the el paso wal-mart a few months later by somebody with the same ideology was, you know, an act of antisemitism. so we limit how we think about antisemitism actually exists in the real word when we say it's on this side of the line or that side of the line and tonight want to use it as a matter of law to stifle speech. that ends a debate and stops us from doing the things we should be doing on the campus. >> i have to say, i hadn't thought about the tree of life or wal-mart shooting as acts of antisemitism in the way you just mentioned, but it's true that it doesn't connect to antisemitism. i'm really glad you used that

example. let me ask you about another angle to this. slate's emily tamkin writes groups like the antidefamation league have abandoned some of the people it exists to protect by mapping ceasefire protests as antisemitic incidents and updating methodology to include certain anti-israel incidents in its calculation of how much antisemitism has actually risen based on speech as you mentioned right now. what's your response to these kinds of designations by prominents groups like the adl that want to use this expansive terminology of antisemitism to include those specific phrases things like from the river to the sea or calling for up risings? >> there's a debate inside the jewish community. and the debate is whether a certain view towards israel is required to be inside the tent. and i get it when jonathan

greenblattand others believe that antizionism is antisemitism all the time, but the problem is it isn't. if you're a palestinian or supporter of palestinian rights and see zionism as impacting your ability to control your lives, that's not because it's about jews. and inside the jewish community, you have a generation of younger people still very much a minority, but their judeism leads them to an antizionist position they can't square. and they can't square the idea of a jewish state with the idea of how do you treat the stranger and repair the world. i'll disagree with them on the merits of that, but won't label their views as antisemitic. just say i'll disagree with them. >> kenneth stern, thank you so much for your time. i greatly appreciate your sharing your insights with us. >> thank you for having me. ann coulter and vivek ramaswamy face off in worst of the week. you don't want to miss this one.

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it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. wooooo! >> you are so bright and articulate, and i guess i can call you articulate since you're not an american black. can't say that about them, that's derogatory. i agreed many, many things you said, in fact probably more than most other candidates when you were running for president, but i still would not have voted for you because you're an indian. that was ann coulter's way of saying hello to one time

presidential republican candidate vivek ramaswamy on his own podcast. culture's offensive and racist and un-american comments, and ramaswamy's placating were enough to get both of them in our worst of the week. she continually referred to him as an immigrant, but he himself was actually born and raised in ohio. that's why he was able to run for president. if ann was actually paying attention to his campaign. afterwards on x he said quote, i disagree with her but respect that she had the guts to speak her mind. something that two of them could agree on though? >> there are arab street signs, vivek! when you take in that many immigrants from that area of the world at once, and we're taking them from all kinds of areas. they create their own little mexicos, their own little whatever.

>> yeah, enclaves, absolutely. it's disgusting, actually. >> you know what that looks and smells like mr. ramaswamy? desperation. molly and dean are both back with me. dean, i'll start with you. there's so many layers to unpack in this exchange, but what do you make? >> with vivek versus ann coulter, it's like watching the cowboys play the patriots as a giants fan. i just root for injuries. i think ramaswamy is worse because he thinks he's white, and coulter told him why he only got 3% of the vote and tim scott got less, because they're not race and are sell outs. they're both race grifters. to me, vivek is worse because i respect you for speaking your mind. >> and he agrees with her saying it's disgusting that there are communities in the country with signs on their streets. >> yeah, like little italy, does he have a problem with

little italy? probably not. my grandkids weren't treated kindly when they came here because they were olive skinned and catholic. america evolves. >> molly, what do you think? >> both appalling, appalling human beings. look, the scary thing about vivek is that he's involved in this white nationalism. this very antidemocrattic really scary kind of, you know, there are racist roots to it, but it's also just very dark. and then the scary thing about ann coulter is she hates immigrants and always has and always will because she's a racist. but the thing about this conversation when you watch it is that, like, there's been so much antiimmigrant rhetoric, but the reality, the reason our economy is as good as it is is because we have immigrants. >> yeah, but these people don't care about it. they're not having a debate about the merits of the american economy.

they're, they're -- >> right, but we have to remember that immigration is really good, and it's really good for the economy, and it's really good, and we were actually talking during the break, it's how all of our families got here and how ann's family got here. >> don't tell her that. i don't think she acknowledges that. >> everyone remembers stephen miller, donald trump's gargoyle. i'm not kidding, about a hour and a half ago, he was with young republicans bragging that in the trump administration, we let in the least refugees in the modern era. and he goes you can applaud for that. they're trying to brainwash young republicans to be anti-immigrant. not legal, but anything. let's close the country, keep it the demographic it is, and maybe the right white can keep control. it's more and more important to call it out. >> and for me, it's not just

tokenism. like, i'm trying to understand vivek ramaswamy here and why he's trying to do this. does he see for himself a future in the party when he kind of takes this position of being a non-white nationalist as he call himself and then bringing on ann coulter to debase and humiliate him and then he basically agrees and winks and nods and praises her? >> i think two things are going on. one is he's trying to make money off the maga grift. there are people that love the maga podcast, and he feels he's as good as don jr. when he comes to that, and he probably is. and then the other thing i think is he thinks he could be hud secretary. right? because if trump wins he could be hud secretary. >> is that what ben carson was? >> yeah, you have one spot for someone that's not white. >> let me play this one for you, the bonus contender. hillary clinton on msnbc this

week. she tried to school students about, um, the pro-palestinian protests. watch. >> i have had many conversations, as you have had, with a lot of young people over the last many months now. they don't know very much at all about the history of the middle east. they don't know that under the bringing together of the israelis and the palestinians by my husband, the then israeli prime minister, the then head of the palestinian liberation organization then the palestinian authority. this offer was made, and if araf at had accepted it, there would have been a palestinian state for years. >> let's put aside the facts, which are incorrect and been debunked multiple times. the camp david accords were not a serious offer. everyone knows that, except for her i guess.

but let's talk about the politics of this. you have a former secretary of state, former presidential damage cat, -- candidate, part of the democratic party that knows they need a coalition to beat donald trump, and she goes out and makes those kinds of statements. and let's not forget a professor at columbia university at one point. >> let's be honest, bill clinton was an anti-vietnam protester in college. she's saying he didn't know what he was talking about? but hillary clinton has been consistent. she was in the young republicans in college. when she was president of wellesly college she did her best to not allow anti-vietnam protests to go on on campus. she doesn't believe young people have the right to speak. you don't need to know the history of the the middle east to see the images of gaza and not be disgusted. you've seen 14,000 children killed. look at world war ii, that's what the un is saying, the most residential homes destroyed since world war ii

in gaza because of netanyahu's military. you don't need any background to know that's wrong. for her to dismiss the concerns of the young people, at least she didn't smear them as pro-hamas, but she just smeared them as not being smart enough. they know what's going on. >> and you don't have to be an expert on rwanda's history to know that genocide is wrong or the collapse of yugoslavia, you don't have to know about the modern state to know what happened there and the ethnic cleansing there was morally wrong. so i'm not sure why she's taken this approach that young people are uninformed and don't know history. >> she's not a politically gifted politician. and that is why we are here today. i mean, you know, you need this coalition, you need

everyone. obviously also these kids are seeing stuff that is impacting them and us, and so i think that this is not where any of us want to be nor should we. >> and certainly when we need young people to participate in the political process in order to save our democracy a few months from now. i wouldn't as a political strategy try to alienate them and tell them your concerns don't matter. thank you to the both of you. greatly appreciate it as always. next up on the ground in ukraine where hundreds are freeing an attack from russia. known for lessons that matter. known for being a free spirit. no one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer, fda-approved for 16 types of cancer. one of those cancers is advanced nonsquamous, non-small cell lung cancer, where keytruda is approved to be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment

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before we go tonight, a reminder that war still rages in ukraine. moscow today announcing they captured five villages in northeast ukraine. hundreds have evacuated fearing a larger attack is coming. sky news is there. >> reporter: the reality of life under russian fire. a huge blast shattered this residential block. no sign of firefighters yet, but then this town is a war zone. he says the blaze must be stopped because it could spread. another resident, valentina is scared, but says she doesn't want to leave. amid the destruction, there's anger.

>> the building was full of elderly people. they struck just next to our home. >> reporter: tatiana takes us around to the front of the building. >> i was in my apartment. there was a huge explosion, and all the shards of glass fell down on me. >> reporter: despite the danger, she too doesn't want to be evacuated, even though she's wounded. the bomb landed here just a bit earlier. you can see it left a devastating crater. residents and civilians were living in this house. people are panicking this fire will ignite their homes too. they're terrified and confused. people don't want to leave even though help is here to evacuate them. they say they want to sort out their belongings first. it's absolute chaos. we head further into the city. the town center lies in ruins. some of the damage was

inflicted by previous russian shelling over recent months. but this place was then targeted in a major assault early on friday morning. residents have been told to flee, but now and then, there's the shortest glimpse of life. the center of the town is absolutely devastated. buildings destroyed. we can hear the sound of explosions. it's empty. there's clearly a battle still going on here. on the way out of town, evidence of fresh strikes a police officer who came with us says the the carnage is hard to witness. >> i feel outraged. a sense of injustice that innocent people are suffering like this. we help them in any way we can. >> reporter: that includes evacuating those that are willing to go, and not just from here, but also other

villages close to russia's border as fighting rages. this family left when russia first occupied the area in the early months of the war. they returned after a ukrainian counteroffensive pushed the russians out. but now they're fleeing again. >> we didn't sleep at all last night. there was shouting. they hit the hospital next to us, and all our windows shattered. >> reporter: do you think you'll ever be able to go home? >> we have our animals there. we have our pigs, chickens, our dog, our cats. when everything is okay, we will come home. >> reporter: a hope, doubtless held by everyone here. but it will depend on whether ukraine once again can reverse the russian advance deborah haynes, sky news, northeast ukraine. >> our thanks to sky security and defense editor deborah

haynes and thanks to all of you for making time for us tonight. be sure to come back tomorrow night. i'll be speaking to arizona secretary of state adrian fontes about his warning against the use of a.i. in the next election. we'll have that and much more when we see you at 7:00 p.m. eastern. until then, have a good night. [street noise] [car door shuts] [paparazzi cameras] introducing, ned's plaque psoriasis. ned, ned, who are you wearing? he thinks his flaky red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. ned? otezla can help you get clearer skin, and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing otezla for over a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis.

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