vacuum and seize the moment and develop a relationship with constituents. trump does that in spades and i don't think biden has that same charismatic connection to voters. unfortunately, this election could hinge on that. podcast and stay where you are. inside with jen psaki begins right now. at the moment that's been years in the making. former trump takes returned star witness michael cohen will take the stand tomorrow.

his longtime friend and adviser lanny davis is standing by, here in studio for an exclusive preview. andrew wiseman and kristi greenberg both watched stormy daniels testify this weekend they will join me as well. also today, a rant about a fictional cannibal was not the most concerning thing the president said yesterday. biden campaign spokesperson adrian elrod joins me with reaction. later, my rent nsand colleae ali velshi stops by to talk about his book and how acts of courage are the engine of democracy. okay, the date was january 12th, 2018 and this was the headline on the wall street journal. trump lawyer arrange $130,000 payment for adult film star silence. obviously it was a grabbing headline by 2018 standards but there was also a lot going on

at the time. the big news that night was actually the sitting president of the united states saying something completely racist about african countries. but that story from the wall street journal, the one about the hush money for the star managed to break through that night. >> quite a story in the wall street journal and i quote, trump lawyer arrange $130,000 payment for adult film star silence. >> the payment to stephanie clifford who performs under stormy daniels was arranged by r trump attorney michael cohen. >> this is an important story. . full disclosure, we've known each other a long time and i need to be honest with you. the story makes me want to leave my body. >> okay, now the story was out there and rachel was understandably leaving her body as we just saw. we know that michael cohen had paid the money and it was clear that he did so on trump's behalf. trump himself was playing dumb. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no.

>> whited michael cohen make that -- >> if you can hear, that was air force one and he said, michael is my attorney, you will have to ask michael. well, that was april 5th, 2018, just four days later on april 9th, the fbi executed a search warrant on michael cohen's home and office in manhattan and according to prosecutors cohen spoke with trump on the day of the searches. trump allegedly told him to quote, stay strong . and then on april 21st, a couple of weeks later, trump publicly encouraged cohen not to flip in a series of tweets. saying quote, most people will flip if the government lets him out of trouble even if it means lying and making up stories so i don't see michael doing that. fair to say did exactly age well when looking at a date and tomorrow. by august he pled guilty to

camp invite -- violations and outlined the scheme, all of it and implicated his former boss. and in 2019 he revealed the details of the scheme to congress and the country. >> mr. trump directed me to use my own personal funds from a home-equity line of credit. to avoid any money being traced back to him, that could negatively impact his campaign. and i'm going to jail in part because of my decision to help mr. trump hide that payment from the american people. before they voted, a few days later. the president of the united states, thus wrote a personal check for the payment of hush money, as part of a criminal scheme to violate campaign finance laws. >> as you heard him say, michael cohen led on to serve

federal prison for the same scheme donald trump is standing trial for her. the very same scheme and tomorrow, michael cohen is going to tell his story on the witness stand with donald trump sitting just a few feet away. to be in that courtroom tomorrow. this time after a parade of witnesses and avalanche of documents have backed up his story. and lay the groundwork what he owing to say. just to remind you, david pecker described the meeting they hatched this scheme and hope hicks said it would not be in coins name -- nature to pay on his him. madeleine testified she scheduled a meeting between cohen and the trumpet the white house where they discussed the payment. so cohen will talk about all of it over the next couple of days. it is all happening more than six years after we first read the story in the wall street journal. but it is happening. the wheels of justice turn slowly, sometimes of frustratingly slowly but they do turn. and the one constant, is the never-ending presidential campaign of donald trump. lanny davis his longtime friend and former adviser to michael

cohen and prepared him for his congressional testimony in 2019. i think that was you in the footage we just showed, sitting behind him as well, but he joins me now. great to see you, thank you for taking the time. >> seeing that has money and remembering the night before, preparing for the testimony is relevant as to what is going to face tomorrow. >> that is such a good leader and. let me start on a personal note, you are a long-term adviser, you are a friend. how is he feeling about testifying? but evident that he's telling the truth and when you have the truth and you don't worry about telling the truth, it gives you confidence no matter what the attack is. he is confident he's got the facts and they are fully corroborated by others. so all he owing to be doing, no matter what the attack is, is to say something fully corroborated by other people's testimony including friends of mr. trump number documents, text messages and emails. >> he's a pretty combative, i don't think he would mind being called combative. is not exactly a shrinking

violet. we have seen it in the courtroom, seen it on twitter and other things. what tone should we anticipate from him tomorrow? >> again, that is relevant to what we have been through and i remind people when he testified on february 27th, 2019, he wasn't in front of a courtroom, with a judge to protect him from unfair attacks. he walked into a hearing room. live, national and international television under oath. and on the wall behind mr. jordan, the ranking member, with reverend elijah cummings, committee chairman of the house oversight committee was a sign. liar, liar, pants on fire. that was the beginning of the most vicious part of the partisan attacks including mark meadows, the future chief of staff and what did michael do, and i must say i helped him, have the fortitude to do it. keep his voice down, tell the truth and most importantly, only that he lied and he did evil deeds, as he said for donald trump, for 10 years and

he said when he opened his testimony, i have no excuses, i am ashamed, i am here to tell the truth. that is what i think we will see in the courtroom this coming week. >> let me pass on that because we have seen his combative nature. he has been reprimanded by the judge even for some of the things he's done on tiktok and how outspoken he has been and you are saying, that is not what you expect tomorrow. >> that is not what i expect i and i'm virtually certain because he knows that he acted out of passion, out of reaction to what he was being accused of in the courtroom and he won't be doing any more twitter and he will be the michael cohen you saw in that testimony and we have talked repeatedly, recently, and i know that he will be telling the truth and will be telling the truth calmly, no matter what they say because he knows everything that he says is fully cooperated. >> there's a lot we have learned over the last couple of days. we knew a lot already but we

have learned details from david pecker, hope hicks and others. you expect we will learn new things that we didn't know before during testimony tomorrow? >> there may be somethings. i was in the room the last two or three years with two sets of district attorney's. and i know that the corroboration and detail, backing up michael is what people don't recognize. but i want to remind you of something else. this is not just manhattan d.a. brad, who mr. trump attacks for political motivation and his supporters attacked this case. remember, it was donald trump's federal prosecutors, in the southern district of new york, who wrote a public memo and they wrote, donald trump directed the -- the word as directed, michael cohen to make these payments. this is after his denial that he did know anything about it. is on prosecutors, not only said he was direct thing michael cohen to make this payment to ms. daniels but he faced a case that is on prosecutors said, impaired

democracy. not about hush money for sex. has prosecutors in the public memo that, this case is about finding people not to tell the american people before they vote for president to be silent. so his prosecutors described the case as an important case. so the trump supporters to disparage it, are in the face of his own prosecutors and what they said when they charged michael cohen, went he did the time. >> which is an interesting point. when detail, that madeleine talked about and you know that she sat outside of trump's office, that outer oval come you see everything. she set up this meeting between trump and michael cohen and a key part seems to be, him confirming the details of the conversation. you expect to learn more about that tomorrow? >> the details of michael's reaction, to a sitting president of the united dates in the oval office, writing a check from his personal checking account, which by the way we put on tv, on february

27th, which i thought would be almost the end of the hearing, it was so shocking, yet it was a big yacht by the republicans. a sitting president writing a check to implement a crime that someone is about to go to jail for. i was imagining a democratic president writing a hush money check. so yes, we will learn some details of michael on direct examination is able to put some color behind his sensation when he's went to see the president of the united states and of the word was reimbursed rudy giuliani, his own attorney said is a reimbursement for the hush money. it wasn't legal fees. as you're trump knew that there were no legal services so that might be the shocking detail that michael can provide. >> it is such an interesting point. don't build legal fees like this and you know this well. part of preparing for testimony like this is of course preparing for what people are going to attack you on and of course for michael cohen, the

suggestion, i would expect the defense to do this in cross- examination, that he committed perjury because he denied under oath he had committed tax evasion after he pleaded guilty in 2018. addressed this to some degree. i have asked about it but how will he handle that tomorrow? >> i was there when he was forced to plead guilty on a friday night. the prosecutor said you have until monday morning or we will only and that your white -- we will not only indict you, we want that your wife. in a notebook that he kept his records in this building, isn't criminal tax fraud so he knew at the time he was being overcharged. he was a vague term. at that point in time, mr. trump wasn't being charged and then when he finally had a chance to say he was coerced into doing that, he finally said so. and taking the penalty for not -- in this one statement to the judge, admitting to a crime that as he said to me, i lied about a live. now it is time to clear the air, his criminal defense lawyer said he was coerced and he told the truth.

>> he cleared the air. in 20 seconds, the last time we spoke you said you think trump will go to jail. watching the trial over the last few weeks, are you confident and that? >> i really don't want to second-guess the jury. i think there is evidence to convict him. and i think he can pardon himself at some point. he can be incarcerated. at the time, i might've been angrier and now i am more reliant on the criminal justice system. i trust the jury system. i would not favor putting him in jail. i am in favor of him being accountable. let me repeat, he can't pardon himself. >> because of the state law. >> it is a state law, he cannot pardon himself for a state crime. >> really excellent preview. a lot of people will be watching. coming up, we take a deep dive into stormy daniels prosecution -- testimony. andrew wiseman and kristi greenberg watched it happen and they will join me next. we're back after this. er this.

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examination this week, donald trump's defense team went to extensive lengths in their attempt to it discredit stormy daniels. the number of points about like a -- shaming that should be behind us and yet, if you were hoping for perry mason's moment it is pretty clear that they didn't quite get the answers they were looking more. the defense growled it daniels about her alleged affair with the client, accusing her of making up details. they charged to shame her, asking quote, you have experience in making phony stories about sex appear to be real, right? daniels responded, that's not how i would put it. the sex in the films is very much real just like what happened to me in that room. and she later pointed out that the story wasn't true, i would have written it to be a lot better. of course the defense was -bent on denying the affair but also argued the details of the affair were not relevant to the case. that was the basis of not one but two requests for a mistrial

this week. both of which ejected by judge merchan. as a pointed out, the incest since on claiming the affair didn't half and give the prosecution every right to corroborate his tory and andrew wiseman is former general counsel for the fbi, kristi greenberg is deputy chief of the criminal division of the southern district of new york. both of them are joining me now. happy mother's day to you, let me start by saying that. so andrew, trumps defense spent three hours, we all watched, trying to discredit daniels over the affair, far longer than questioning of david pecker and hope it. it seems clear they may want to use the scope of the stormy daniels comments to argue during the appeals cargo for a mistrial. but how concerned are you having watched this, about the possibility and are there days and their ability to make the argument. >> not concerned at all. and i also think that the first step is, they only have to worry about that if there is a

conviction and one of the things that you get at, is that irrationality of what is actually happening on the defense side, here. david pecker, gave direct testimony, direct conversations with donald trump about the scheme. hope hicks gave devastating testimony, from someone who is close to the former president, about the words coming out of his mouth to her, about the scheme. those are the witnesses that needed to be crossed. those are the witnesses where you have to come up with something to say to the jury about why they got it wrong, either they misremembered or they are lying. and yet the person who was subjected to this withering, -- cross-examination was stormy daniels. and frankly her testimony, whether you believe it or not is not relevant. we know that donald trump would want to suppress information about, that was negative about him such as what the doorman

said about him having an illegitimate child. no one is contending that was a true story and yet it was suppressed according to david pecker under this catch and kill agreement. so it was really odd to see the hammer and tongs cross- examination which by the way largely fell flat but it was an odd choice to go after her and not the witnesses who were actually damaging. >> thank you for bringing my temperature down, as usual. sometimes you bring it up but this time he brought it down. i appreciate that. the defense seemed to be fixated on denying the alleged affair. they went after her and after her and after her. was that necessary, was it the right strategy? what is your take on that? >> it felt so unnecessary to andrew's point. the cross was trying to argue that essentially, being a star is the same as being a liar with the quote that you mentioned.

the stories about sex, that is what you do for a living. you are a liar because you are a porn star. they argued being a porn star meant she was a prostitute or that she would be open for business and could never feel uncomfortable by any unwanted advances. and that also failed. i think probably alienated at least the five women on the jury. it was really, pretty disgusting line of cross. the only thing she was somewhat effective at was arguing stormy daniels was primarily motivated by money to sell her story and to that i say, so what? i still believe the encounter happened but i also believe that she wanted to make money from it. a guy who is -- was he going to ask the jury to think she is a liar because she had a reality show and wanted to make money from it. he can't say, she's hocking candles, don't believe her when

he's selling bibles. so it really, i don't think that they scored points with. if anything i do think that they alienated some jurors with the cross-examination. >> that is a rich argument. i love how you phrase that. michael cohen, as we've been talking already, one of the states last witnesses is taking the stand tomorrow. there's been a lot of hemming and hauling of what this will be. if you are the prosecution, there's a lot of details in this but what are you worried about, if you are the prosecution? >> cross examination. and i listened to lanny davis, and what he expects happens, i got the sense more that is what he hope happens and will be fine. but he needs to contain his cool. he needs to not be thin- skinned. he does have some areas that he really does have to worry about in terms of answering questions. you mentioned one which is

having lied -- he says he lied to a federal judge, and pleaded guilty and he has to on that and that is not a crime. that is not something he did because of donald trump. that was something he chose to do. is also going to have to answer why he tape-recorded some conversations, but not other conversations. that is an effective line of cross-examination. and he just needs to be frankly like stormy daniels, which is smart, careful, and unflappable. as kristi and i observed, she got better on cross- examination. she was humanized and you saw just how effective she was. but she was unflappable and that is not a characteristic that people really associate with michael cohen. >> not typically. andrew wiseman and kristi greenberg. people see you on tv, both of you but they don't see all the questions you answer to all of us in the green room and

untaxed and on phones when we are trying to explain this stuff. we will be watching you this week. coming up, there's not a playbook for campaigning against the guy stuck in court at his own criminal trial. the biden campaign is writing it as a go. a senior spokesperson for the campaign joints me next. me nex. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ (man) mm, hey, honey. ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪

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one thing about an election year with a candidate who is also a criminal defendant, there's no shortage of split screen moments. peter baker is calling it the surreal synchronous some of the alliteration and we saw much more of it this week. take tuesday when donald trump was sitting in a drab courtroom, listening to a former adult film star describe tonight with them. joe biden was delivering a national televised beach at the holocaust remembrance so many. the next day, trump had the day off of court but his trial covered the network and president biden was in wisconsin. but that trip revealed something important about who

is paying attention to which side of the screen. just take a look at the newspapers and in wisconsin. the morning after biden's visit, his visit dominated local front pages if -- as trump's trials dominates the national headlines. for all of the concern, this is history and we should be talking about it but for the biden campaign, those covers of the milwaukee journal, sentinel and other papers are reaching the voters he needs to reach. joining me as adrian eldridge, a spokesperson for the biden/harris campaign. we have been through many, many campaigns together. >> yes, we have. >> it is great to see you. they are lucky to have you on board. let me start right there because i get asked this question about how the biden campaign can break through, what they should be doing differently, to break through. explain to us what the strategy is, and how the biden team is reaching voters that they need to reach to get them out for november. >> happy mother's day. great to be with you today.

i think you laid it out perfectly in that lead up. where there is the ultimate contrast, joe biden, this week was in racing, going to the very place in a 2017 were donald trump said we are going to create thousands of jobs, calling it the eighth wonder of the world. the jobs never materialized. joe biden went back to where microsoft is building a facility where thousands of jobs will be created and he's delivering on promises. donald trump is not. he's filled with empty promises. you show the headlines. as much as you and i would love to believe it, every american, every voters tuning into cnn, msnbc, cable news every day and they are some not. the local headline smatter. so our campaign has been focused on sending president biden out to these battleground states, making the direct contrast, talking directly to voters and pressing the flash were donald trump is in the courtroom. by the way he had a day off this week and he went to an nft conference where he could make money. >> $10,000 to get a piece of

his suit and tie. the other question, have to get asked about, is there so much to go after trump on and this is like when people are out there to support joe biden or don't like donald trump or both, so for example, at his new jersey rally yesterday, he appeared to praise hannibal lecter, a fictional cannibal and serial killer. i don't know what to take of that. he mixed up jimmy carter and jimmy connors. and joe biden was on a private fundraiser where he talked about trump being unhinged and said something snapped in him after the election. but there's a lot. there's the trials, the economy, there is abortion rights. what should people be talking about? what is the thing internally in the campaign the people are like, please keep saying this. >> i want to shut out to our incredible communications team on the campaign. that a stealth rapid response team making sure every time donald trump lies or miss speaks, that he's being called out fred. that is being called

accountability. that is one thing. secondly, you have to look at the overall umbrella. the overarching theme of this campaign. what is the difference between joe biden, the way that he would serve a second term versus donald trump. that is the fact donald trump is focused on revenge on his political enemies, selfishness, he is not fighting for the american people. not only is joe biden fighting for the american people but he has a record to prove that and he has talked a lot about what is going to do for a second term, lowering prescription drug prices, creating more jobs, building on implementation, economic legislation he passed. which by the way, we shouldn't discount those. those are big pieces of legislation which will continue to be implemented in a second term if donald trump comes in, he's going to try to undo all of that work and try to undo the manufacturing jobs this

legislation will continue to create so you have to look at the umbrella that joe biden is fighting for the american people no matter if you are democrat, republican and unregistered, he's fighting for you versus donald trump who is fighting for himself and six revenge. if you look at that under the guise, everything falls under that frame. >> the choice. the other question i have to get a lot, and i'm asking a lot of questions but i get asked a lot about nikki haley voters. every time there's a primary it seems to be inside -- a surprising number of people. she's not even in the race anymore. >> is that a prime target for the biden team? i know there are money spent on ads, like the blink of an ad months ago. what is done to go after these voters and are they important? >> it is critically important to our campaign and it is not, i don't think we are looking at the guise of whether or not it will make a difference but these are voters we are actively going -- going after. you have been on a number of campaigns and you know the infrastructure laid early in the battleground states makes a giant difference in a close election. we are laying that in the structure. we announced by the end of may

we would have 200 field offices in battleground states. we've got 47 in wisconsin alone. we have over 500 people hired in those battleground states. we are building infrastructure, compare that to donald trump who has no infrastructure. >> when you say -- you don't have the money. >> thank you. >> adrian all right, i'm happy you are on the campaign. they are lucky to have you. it is great to see my friends. coming up, mike johnson wants you to trust his intuition when it comes to made- up election fraud and i will tell you why that is not a great idea. later, a single chapter of ali velshi's new book could be its own movie. i can't wait to talk to him about it. we're back after a quick break. . their solution for us? a private 5g network. (ella) we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility.

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the usual flood of news this week, you ate -- may have missed the newest chapter in the integrity of our elections. so this week, speaker mike johnson, and a gang of denying republicans held a press conference on the capitol steps and were introducing a bill at that press conference that criminalizes something that is already illegal, noncitizens voting in our elections. but more notable than completely unnecessary legislation and the press conference accompanying it, is the narrative they are trying to push. >> there is currently an

unprecedented and clear and present danger to the integrity of our election system. and that is the threat of noncitizens and illegal aliens voting in our election. it is true that democrats have expressed a desire to turn noncitizens into voters. that is what this open border has been about. >> the combination of a wide open border and obstruction of any effort to verify citizenship of who votes in our elections. these things are all combined, and an effort to end our republican form of government. >> every time stephen miller shows up you know it is going to be crazy but there's a lot of conspiracy to impact there. first the speaker of the house and fellow republicans are falsely claiming that millions of noncitizens illegally vote. but republican election conspiracies are nothing new. what makes the remarks from johnson even more outrageous, is the brazen attempt to actually type right-wing conspiracies together.

the false claim of mass election fraud and racist and frankly dumb replacement theory. we talked about on our show before, though once french but now -- purposely bringing migrants from third world countries in order to dilute the influence of political power, of real americans. according to johnson and his colleagues and joe biden opened the border to as many migrants as possible in order to activate them as fraudulent democratic votes, come november. that is crazy. the theory is not only false and racist and dangerous and insane but also crumbles under the slightest weight of the most basic questions. >> [ inaudible question ] >> we all know intuitively, that a lot of illegals are voting in federal elections but it not been something that is easily provable. we don't have that number.

>> we know intuitively but it is not easily provable. that is like saying i don't know for a fact, but i think it's true. so mike johnson desperately wants you to trust his five, basically. and what he's talking about just isn't anything. don't take it from me, that is according to the brennan center that found noncitizens voting is vanishingly rare. -- reported noncitizens don't illegally vote in detectable numbers. and this is my favorite, according to the hard right heritage foundation, which according to their own database reports less than 100 cases of noncitizens illegally voting between 2002 and 2023. the heritage foundation, i remind you was the home of the nearly 1000 page project 2025 plan on their website. less than 100 cases. in a period that literally hundreds of millions of votes were cast. it is not a thing.

that happens on any significant level. and why what it, noncitizens can vote, it is already a crime. at best the legislation pushes a solution looking for a problem. but far more alarming, it is intended to sow doubt about our country's elections, should donald trump leaves. we are not going to take our eye off of it. and neither should you. coming up, getting hit with a rubber bullet taught my friend ali velshi about being an american citizen. i will have been looking forward to this conversation a week and it is coming up, next. that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. -remember when i said we need to screen for colon cancer?

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i want to take you to may 30th of 2020. we were in the middle of a pandemic and five days earlier george floyd was murdered by a white lease officer outside a convenience store in in minneapolis. colleague ali velshi found himself in minneapolis to cover the protest but when he got there he was debriefed and asked if he brought it will prove vast and gas mask. he writes, quote, it never occurred to me before that night i would need to down a bullet proof vest in my own country. yet here i was in minneapolis doing exactly that. i were the best under my shirt and carried the mask at the ready. and hours later this happened. >> nobody was doing anything. they pulled in. they open fire. they are aiming their fire now. they're walking toward us. get back. you get back. he's hit. step back. we are protesters moving closer and please continue to fire.

>> it is shouting do it. do it. is that clear? >> i got hit. old on. >> another producer i work with ran the control room that night and said it was a remarkable moment. and we saw a member of law enforcement who shot ali velshi with a rubber bullet. he writes quote, that was the moment i finally became a citizen in the deepest sense of the word because that was the day i understand how invested in this place i need to be. one day i will find out who shot me and when i do i will thank them because what they did was open my eyes. they woke me up. they changed my outlook on democracy. that rubber bullet told me during this fight come you're not watching anymore, you are in it whether you want to be or not. joining me as my friend and colleague ali velshi, the host of velshi on msnbc and author of this book that i was reading on the train rest days yesterday, small acts of

courage, a legacy of endurance in the fight for democracy. there's so much in this book but i want to start, at the time you are in in minneapolis, the protest was formative for you. i read the quote from your book, the moment you are shot with a rubber bullet that led to an epiphany. you write, leaving minneapolis i found myself not only in a new place in my life but also on an entirely new journey in my career. that is a very profound statement. what happened after that, that led to this book? >> it was 2020 so we had a few years of seeing what the attacks on citizenship looks like in this country, from donald trump. when you grow up with a certain degree of privilege, which compared to the rest of my family, i did. i grew up in a place that generally speaking things were free and equal for everything days for everyone. my family grew up under apartheid by the color of their skin they didn't have certain rights. because i didn't, i treated journalism to that date as something which we are reporting and bearing witness and holding power to account, as we should hear and in that

moment you realize, you are in it. you are in it, you are as responsible a citizen as everybody else to push back on those things that threaten your democracy and your citizenship. i didn't choose to end up being part of the story that night but i became part of the story. subsequent to that you had donald trump carrying on about how they should be targeting journalists. they should be silencing journalists's. he made up a tale about the whole thing and it made me realize i am not exempt. i am not exempt from participating in citizenship and protecting democracy, that he had started to erode at that point and continues to try to do so. >> it is such an important point and so many people struggle with exactly a version of this. in this moment in covering trump and threats to our democracy. you talk about this on your show. i said earlier that this chapter could be a movie. your grandfather or great- grandfather was sent to study under gandhi as seven years old. you talk about how gandhi will take groups out and since your grandfather was the youngest he

would waste him on his shoulders. that is a remarkable image. and you talk a lot about -- it is really about your family. the effect, the experience had on him and the life he lived to tell. talk to me about your family history, how that is impacting who you are today, and kind of how you view the world. >> i wouldn't have thought it relevant, as it ended up being. and part of that was when gandhi, who was a friend and associate of my great- grandfather said he was starting this commune, to ring up people to fight became apartheid. he said people don't have courage. they have to learn how to do it so he billed this with no hot water, no meat. you slept on the floor, you had a blanket to sleep on, one on top of you and the point was to train people to engage in civil disobedience and to go to jail if they had too. my grandfather, ended up being his youngest student. my great-grandfather said to gandhi, he did not want this to

happen. i great-grandfather was a businessman and was interested in this rabble-rouser. he said we are muslim and you are hindu and i cannot send my child to grow up on your farm and gandhi said i will learn the religion and to teach it to them. my grandfather learned from a hindu but gandhi read jewish scriptures, he read christian scriptures. so he became a pluralist and my grandfather were up as a pluralist. they understood that is what life is about. appreciating differences and as a result of fighting apartheid those years later, my family is devoted to the idea that people should not be judged by virtue of their origin, skin color or religion. that has influenced my thinking about why this moment we are in, is so important to fight for her. >> that is undoubtedly how you cover the world and you have done that as well. there's so much in this book. one of the most poignant moments and my favorite because i love love is when you talk about your wife. and you write, the single business catalyst in your evolution as a journalist was

they should had nothing to do with world affairs, it was my wife lori, whom i met when she appeared as a guest on my show. i love that story. a mutual fund portfolio editor would come on to share her expertise. before i met her i was not ambitious guy. i didn't necessarily think i was anyone special who would accomplish anything great in this world. without her i may be content to enjoy myself making a decent living and having a good time. she is the one is said to me, you can do more than that. most importantly she was the one that made me believe it. that is a long thing i read but it is beautiful and poignant and made --. talk to me about how with your world travels and covering for so many of the aspects of journalism, how is having a supportive partner impacting your life? >> you have had a similar experience in your life, we've got to cancel things at the last minute, you bail on things that theoretically are important. you cannot design a life

without important things in it because he may have to work because it is a really big matter and on this mother's day it is important to remember all of those people who allow all of us, men or women, to work hard and do our jobs. and sometimes that comes at a cost to your family. it is a remarkable thing. if your family doesn't support you with the work that we do, you can't do it. and this depends on my family and my wife trusting the fact that i know how to do what i have to do, i know how to take care of myself and my priority is coming home and spending time with family. it is my wife, my parents and kids, they are all such big players in the fact that i want to go out there and bear witness and hold power to account. but that is not a single person's job. it is not just my job. it is my family and amazing staff who support our ability to go out and tell the stories. >> i echo all of that, family, family at home, family at work, it is how we do what we do.

congratulations on your book. it is amazing. should be a movie. >> congratulation on your eyes. >> it is a big book week here. >> today's the perfect day to talk about this person and we will be right back. back. ction. so i smell great all day, all hike, and all night. secret whole body deodorant. you know, i spend a lot of time thinking about dirt. at three in the morning. any time of the day. what people don't know is that not all dirt is the same.

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their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. you may have noticed that i am on tv a lot more this week. in so many chats i have had about the country, there is one person that keeps coming up. what i learned from this, first

of all, what would my mother think when she sees these emails, she will not be happy with me. she is a therapist, she is very funny, she is from queens, new york. >> mother is a therapist is the secret weapon. >> growing up with a mother who is a therapist, i have a master class in the value of listening to people. she is my teacher when it comes to communicating with people that you do not agree with. one of the most important lessons is what she told me when i was upset about not getting a job. she knew i was disappointed and felt look let down by people i previously looked up to.

she did note not let me wallow in my anxieties. it takes two people to make things awkward, if you hold your head high, it will not be. there are too many things i have learned from my mother to ever be able to share. this mother's day, i want to give a shout out to the person who has given me the greatest impact. happy mother's day, mom. i want to wish an amazing mother's day to my mother-in- law. that does it for me today. stay where you are, there is much more news coming up on msnbc. ahead this hour, jen psaki will stay with me to talk about some of the points made by donald trump. and like you just heard, her new book. look at